Talk:Three Telos Model: Difference between revisions
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:: I have watched a number of their podcasts. I would say it is much more reliably than average and have no intent to deceive. I have no idea how the Wikipedia people would view them. They have proper degrees and seem to attempt to cover the topics well. They do switch topics each week so clearly they would not be an expert on all topics. Have a look at the profiles of the podcasters, [https://www.lotuseaters.com/author/josh-ferme Josh Ferme]and [https://www.lotuseaters.com/author/hugo-hythloday Hugo Hythloday] to make your own judgement. Or better yet, watch the actual podcast. --[[User:Dr. Edmonds|Dr. Edmonds]] ([[User talk:Dr. Edmonds|talk]]) 03:46, 3 July 2021 (UTC)
== Extra Information that might be of interest ==
For some introduction on this topic:
* AA's video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qATRlOvfr0 and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jEzmoTcaic
* Charlemagne's video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Twi_6NgsJWU
===== In the Political Front =====
* Poseidon Awoke's NRx Trichotomy: https://archive.fo/gDanF
* Alt-Left trichotomy https://archive.fo/CSX4V
* Post-Modern trichotomy http://www.ijhssnet.com/journals/Vol._1_No._4;_April_2011/17.pdf
* Gentry, Commoners and Clients https://archive.fo/KD7Q9 https://archive.fo/VCFaB
* Cultural Hierarchy reapplied to The Office: https://archive.ph/K7TEY https://archive.fo/rYjwH
Idea: Each Telos corresponds to an ideology's defense system
===== In the Psychological Front =====
* Nietzsche's tripartite mind: https://archive.fo/OA9Wu
* Plato's Tripartite mind: https://archive.fo/mfhTW
* Normapollo's video on the Dark Triad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdKwEx3xeoA
* Comte: https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Law_of_three_stages
Idea: Three Telos have existed for a long time
===== In the Religious and Cultural Front =====
* 3D Gospel (Shame/Guilt/Fear) in secular: https://archive.fo/Lmadx
* 3D Gospel Belief Table: https://archive.fo/bws94
* Related Gospel Table: https://archive.fo/LhGB0
* Reference to Ethnic Native Cultures https://archive.fo/v4YjA/bae8b40e7d4800b8139508ce98ee361fd26f9c83.webp
* Secular Cultural Equivalents through the Lewis Model https://my.uopeople.edu/pluginfile.php/57436/mod_book/chapter/38890/BUS2207U3Text1.pdf
Idea: Telos deviations exist on a global scale
{| class="wikitable"
! Dark Enlightenment !! Theonomist !! Techno-Commercialist !! Ethno-Nationalist
|-
| Triangle || Communism || Capitalism || Fascism
|-
| Old Ruler || Pope || King || General
|-
| New Ruler || President || CEO || Security
|-
| Competition || Disallowed Competition || Unlimited Competition || Out-group Antagonism
|-
| Time Preference || Present (Low) || Investment (Mid) || Tradition (High)
|-
| Evolution || Random || Generative || Adaptive
|-
| Evolution || Genetic Drift (Dysgenics) || Autocatalyticus || Eugenic Breeding
|-
| Zarathustra || Abyss || Tightrpoe || Call of Space
|-
| Relationships || Intuitive Propaganda || Rational Science || Genetic Kinship
|-
| Three Estates || Clergy || Nobility || Craftsman
|-
| Alt-Left Adaptation || Enlightenment Rationalism || Materialist Political Economy || Cultural Communitarianism
|-
| Inverse Alt-Left || Oligopoly || Totalitarianism || Societal Breakdown
|-
| Post-Modernity || Critical Theory || Pragmatism || Post-Structuralism
|-
| French Principles || Equity/Egalitarianism || Freedom/Liberty || Tradition/Fraternity
|-
| Justification || It is fair and reduces harm || The need for self-determination || Rapid change is destructive
|-
| Prestige Identifier || Victim Culture || Dignity culture || Honour Culture
|-
| Economics || Communism Socialism || Free Market Capitalism || Mercantilism Feudalism
|-
| Structure || Flat || Meritocratic || Inherited Class
|-
| Power holder || Government || Worthy || Caste
|-
| Basic unit || Collective || Individual || Tribal
|-
| Truth source || Postmodern Truth Denial || Scientific Method || Divine Knowledge
|-
| World view || Power Structures || Materialism || Idealism
|-
| Vision of Nature || Unconstrained || Emergent || Structured
|-
| Principles || IWAH || SDO || RWA
|-
| Dark Triad || Grandiose Narcissism || Primary Psychopathy || Histrionic Machiavellianism
|-
| Slogan || do what thou wilt || kill or be killed || either with us, or against us
|-
| Vulnerable Dark Triad || Vulnerable Narcissism || Secondary Psychopathy || BPD
|-
| Cluster A Triad || Paranoid || Schizotypal || Schizoid
|-
| Light Triad || Kantianism || Humanism || Faith in Society
|-
| Opposite Philosophy || Consequentialism || Behaviorism || Machiavellianism
|-
| Evil as a means to || Self-Interest || Security || Law and Order
|-
| Normapollo's 3P || Tribal Altruism || Unity & Tradition || Moral Ecology
|-
| Implied Effect || Mutualism || Social Pressure || Secured Future
|-
| Goal || Confidence || Integration || Empowerment
|-
| Tripartite Mind || Eros Pathos || Thymos Ethos || Logos
|-
| Comte || Monotheism || Polytheism || Fetishism
|-
| Comte || Positivism || Metaphysics || Theology
|-
| CAD Triad || Divinity || Autonomy || Community
|-
| || Disgust || Anger || Contempt
|-
| 3D Gospel || Fear v Power || Guilt v Honor || Shame v Innocence
|-
| God's Role || Warrior || Father || Judge
|}
{| class="wikitable"
! Lewis Model !! Multiactive !! Linear-Active !! Reactive
|-
| || 🌍 || 🌎 || 🌏
|-
| Description || Relationship, Multiple Goals || Platonic, Cartesian || Harmony, Solidarity
|-
| Data Acquisition || Solicits First Hand Info || Data From Stats, Research || Data and People
|-
| Planning || Outline || Step-wise || Axiomatic
|-
| Project Planning || Cross-influence || Compartmentalize || Whole Picture
|-
| Work cycle || Multitasking || Linear Schedule || Reacts to partners
|-
| Department || Gets Around All Department || Within Department || All departments
|-
| Work Times || Any Hours || Fixed Hours || Flexible Hours
|-
| Flexibility || Changes Plans || Sticks to Plan || Slight Changes
|-
| Tracking || Interrelation || Fixed Agendas || Thoughtful
|-
| Reflection || Roams back and forth || Sticks to Agenda || Asks for repeats
|-
| Completion || Human Transactions || Action Chains || Reacts to partners
|-
| Communication || Impolite and Emotional || Direct || Indirect
|-
| Tone of Speech || Emotional || Rational || Sympathetic
|-
| Confrontation || Flexibility || Truth || Diplomacy
|-
| Fact || Interpretive (not) || Descriptive (is) || Prescriptive (ought)
|-
| Defining Truth || "Pulls strings"/Key Persons || Officiality || Honest Networking
|-
| Communication || Spoken Word || Written Word || Face-to-Face/Action
|-
| Social v Professional || Interweave || Separate || Connect
|-
| Punctuality || Unimportant || Very Important || Important
|-
| Off work talk || Gregarious || Privacy || Good listener
|-
| Off work talk || Inquisitive || Minds Own Business || Respectful
|-
| Delegation || Relations || Competent Colleagues || Reliable People
|-
| Face || Favors and Excuses || Reluctance || Never Lose Face
|-
| Auditory || Talks for hours || Brief on Telephone || Summarizes Well
|-
| Auditory || Talkative || Talks half the time || Silent and Listens
|-
| Interruption || Often || Rarely || Does not
|-
| People v Jobs || People Oriented || Job-oriented || Very People-oriented
|-
| Patience || Impatient || Partially Impatient || Patient
|-
| Body Language || Unlimited || Limited || Subtle
|-
| Feelings || Displays Feelings || Partly Conceals Feelings || Conceals Feelings
|-
| 3D Gospel || Fear || Guilt || Shame
|-
| Principles || IWAH || SDO || RWA
|}
{| class="wikitable"
! Author !! Top !! Middle !! Bottom
|-
| George Orwell || Inner Party || Outer Party || Proles
|-
| Karl Marx || Bourgeoisie || Communists || Proletariat
|-
| Auguste Comte || Positive || Metaphysical || Theological
|-
| New Left || Activists || Racists, etc. || Victims
|-
| Curtis Yarvin || Gentry || Commoners || Client
|-
| J.R.R. Tolkien || Elves || Hobbits || Dwarves
|-
| Joel Kotkin || Clerisy || Yeomanry || Serfs
|-
| Dennis Price || Cloud People || Dirt People || [dependents]
|-
| David Goodhart || Anywheres || Somewheres || [Inbetweeners]
|-
| Vikings || Earls || Peasants || Thralls (slaves)
|-
| Christopher Chantrill || Creatives || Responsibles || Subordinates
|-
| Christopher Chantrill || Ruling Class || Middle Class || Little Darlings
|-
| Christopher Chantrill || Heroism || Monotheism || Polytheism
|}
===== Quantification of Beliefs =====
* SDO and RWA (Libertarian Dominance and Authority as an Index)
* http://dx.doi.org/10.1002/per.750
* https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S019188691200342X
* http://schmolck.org/smk_poster_tartu.pdf
* https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0092656620300453
* http://dip38.psi.uniroma1.it/web/30annipsicologia/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Chirumbolo_Leone-Antecedenti-e-conseguenze-di-RWA-e-SDO-2-Roma-18-10-2013.pdf
* http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/1369183X.2018.1444470
* Moral Foundations Theory or Evolutionary-Coalitional Theory
* https://bpspsychub.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/bjso.12452
* http://dx.doi.org/10.1111/pops.12361
* https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40806-020-00235-z
* Classification:
* Tradition/Authoritarian: Purity-Authority-Loyalty = RWA
* Compassion/Universalizing: Fairness-Care = IWAH
* Liberty/Dominating: Liberty = SDO
Conclusion or further leads to research:
This tripartite model can be cross-referenced and measured between Hadit's MFT, SDO/RWA/IWAH indices, Political Beliefs ala 8Values, 9Axes, 12Axes, PolitiScales, DichotomyTests, https://10groups.github.io/ (hope OP can reference this)
If there is a way to cleverly cross-correlate Questions within this test, the ideological space can be reduced (hopefully) to only three dimensions. Inventory Correlations has been done for Big Five and HEXACO, and also MFT vs ECT.
[[User:Trichot|Trichot]] ([[User talk:Trichot|talk]]) 16:24, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
== Alternate Diagrams for Triangle or Cube ==
===== Political Triangle =====
* https://archive.fo/qui8m/204f6862a252e430375959b175f8c373363f90a9.jpg
* https://archive.fo/UihAu/6bf33f803161660fd25590969741f481159c1154.jpg
===== Political Cube =====
* https://archive.fo/Rfg9F/ec5ce8e9596ddb00776a6b7e778c9590c2a107a1.png
* https://archive.fo/tZZP3/793e7e8c430dffe21cbd99ddf2c3fddc22c58bf1.png
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