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User talk:RobLa/Old Voting methods category: Difference between revisions
User talk:RobLa/Old Voting methods category (view source)
Revision as of 22:33, 15 November 2021
, 2 years agoRobLa moved page Category talk:Voting methods to User talk:RobLa/Old Voting methods category without leaving a redirect: I deprecated this category a while back. I'm moving it to a subpage of my user space so that the history is preserved.
Psephomancy (talk | contribs) (Respond to User:RobLa) |
m (RobLa moved page Category talk:Voting methods to User talk:RobLa/Old Voting methods category without leaving a redirect: I deprecated this category a while back. I'm moving it to a subpage of my user space so that the history is preserved.) |
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Regardless of what we decide to rename the [[Voting system]] article to, I think we should make that article the main article for this category, and only have a brief category description here, in a style similar to Wikipedia. But category renames are such a pain to do, I'm happy with leaving [[:Category:Voting methods]] in its current location. Thoughts? -- [[User:RobLa|RobLa]] ([[User talk:RobLa|talk]]) 23:55, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
'''NOTE''' - I'm reformatting to make it clear who is saying what -- [[User:RobLa|RobLa]] ([[User talk:RobLa|talk]]) 06:34, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
''eager to use Categories as names'' - ([[User:RobLa|RobLa]], 2020-04-12)
:I'm not sure what you mean? — [[User:Psephomancy|Psephomancy]] ([[User talk:Psephomancy|talk]]) 02:56, 14 April 2020 (UTC)▼
:: That was a thinko. I meant to say "eager to use Category pages as articles", but then I don't remember exactly what I was driving at. -- [[User:RobLa|RobLa]] ([[User talk:RobLa|talk]]) 06:34, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
=== Voting systems or voting methods? ===
''I remember [[User:Homunq]] believed pretty strongly that we should start calling them "Voting systems"'' - ([[User:RobLa|RobLa]], 2020-04-12)▼
: I thought it was "voting methods" that he liked, because "systems" includes electronic vs paper ballots, etc.? — [[User:Psephomancy|Psephomancy]] ([[User talk:Psephomancy|talk]]) 02:56, 14 April 2020 (UTC)▼
:: That could be. My main recollection was the push for "voting __" rather than "election __" or "electoral __". I prefer using "election __" or "electoral __", and that seems to be what Wikipedia has settled on. -- [[User:RobLa|RobLa]] ([[User talk:RobLa|talk]]) 06:34, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
::: Looking at this mess: [[w:Talk:Electoral_system/Archive_7#Requested_move_11_February_2017]] [[w:Talk:Electoral_system/Archive_8#Oh_no,_not_again]] and the beginning of [https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/D6trAzh6DApKPhbv4/a-voting-theory-primer-for-rationalists]
::: Homunq is in favor of "method" and against "system", and said 'As to "voting", "election", or "electoral", I'm agnostic'.
▲''I remember [[User:Homunq]] believed pretty strongly that we should start calling them "Voting systems"''
::: Someone else said "Voting method" and "voting system" both carry a plain English primary meaning of the process of casting a vote, i.e. paper, mechanical or electronic.' which makes sense to me. — [[User:Psephomancy|Psephomancy]] ([[User talk:Psephomancy|talk]]) 20:05, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
=== Length of category articles ===
▲: I thought it was "voting methods" that he liked, because "systems" includes electronic vs paper ballots, etc.?
''I think we should make that article the main article for this category, and only have a brief category description here, in a style similar to Wikipedia.'' - ([[User:RobLa|RobLa]], 2020-04-12)▼
: Yeah, I'll just assume they debated that to death and decided that method was better for some reason. :D ([[User:Psephomancy|Psephomancy]] ▼
▲''I think we should make that article the main article for this category, and only have a brief category description here, in a style similar to Wikipedia.''
:: resolved, then! -- [[User:RobLa|RobLa]] ([[User talk:RobLa|talk]]) 06:34, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
▲: Yeah, I'll just assume they debated that to death and decided that method was better for some reason. :D
=== Category renaming: easy or hard? ===
''But category renames are such a pain to do''▼
▲''But category renames are such a pain to do'' - ([[User:RobLa|RobLa]], 2020-04-12)
: They're easy to do with the mass edit extension, I did one yesterday:
Line 31 ⟶ 43:
:# Press Preview to make sure it's not going to clobber anything
:# Press Execute
:— [[User:Psephomancy|Psephomancy]] ([[User talk:Psephomancy|talk]]) 02:56, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
:: Oh, ok! I may refer back to this if we decide to rename the category. -- [[User:RobLa|RobLa]] ([[User talk:RobLa|talk]]) 06:34, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
== Voting or electoral ==
A "voting method" to me sounds like a method for filling out a ballot. Back in 2017, [[wikipedia:User:Homunq]] tried to rename "[[wikipedia:Voting system]]" to "[[wikipedia:Voting method]]". The consensus (which I think was a better conclusion) as to rename the article to "[[wikipedia:Electoral system]]". That seems good enough to me. Could we rename this category to "Electoral methods", so as to reserve the term "voting" for the actual thing that voters do on election day? -- [[User:RobLa|RobLa]] ([[User talk:RobLa|talk]]) 03:10, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
: I would ask whether the EPOV supports RobLa's request to make "voting method" be used to describe the way people fill out their ballots on election day. Personally, I think the term "voting method" has pretty unambiguously been used by everyone to mean "method of electing representatives". In fact, given the current debate over mail-in balloting during the pandemic, I'd like to create an article discussing exactly the concept that you refer to as "voting method", but I'd strongly prefer to use a different term (such as "balloting method") to name it. [[User:BetterVotingAdvocacy|BetterVotingAdvocacy]] ([[User talk:BetterVotingAdvocacy|talk]]) 21:21, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
== Electoral systems ==
Barring compelling objection, I intend to rename this category to "Electoral systems" in June 2020. Comments still welcome at Category_talk:Voting methods, but to we've been discussing this for months, and it's time to align ourselves with Wikipedia's chosen terminology. Additionally, most of the prose from this article will be moved to Electoral system, and the category page will become a much more succinct description of what "electoral systems" are. -- [[User:RobLa|RobLa]] ([[User talk:RobLa|talk]]) 02:55, 9 June 2020 (UTC)
: Do you have any sources where the major North American voting reform organizations use "voting method" to mean something other than "electoral system"? I'm not objecting to this change, but I'm curious. [[User:BetterVotingAdvocacy|BetterVotingAdvocacy]] ([[User talk:BetterVotingAdvocacy|talk]]) 05:42, 9 June 2020 (UTC)
:: I'm not planning on gathering evidence. [[English Wikipedia]] clearly went through years of discussion arriving at the current terminology. I don't agree with everything that gets consensus in that community, but that [[wikipedia:Voting method]] redirects to prose about the mechanisms+logistics of voting (e.g. paper ballots, machine voting, online voting, postal voting and other methods), it seems self-defeating to try to redefine the term on electowiki. -- [[User:RobLa|RobLa]] ([[User talk:RobLa|talk]]) 21:45, 9 June 2020 (UTC)
== Rename happened ==
I wasn't ''planning'' on making the move today, but the discrepancy with [[English Wikipedia]] was driving me nuts. Moreover, this is "electowiki", not "votiwiki".
As anticipated, the move was messy. The history of the old [[:Category:Voting methods]] page can now be found at [[Electowiki:Electoral systems]]. At least, that's where it is right now. I *might* merge the history back in with the [[:Category:Voting methods]], or I might move it to [[Electowiki:Voting methods]]. TBD. I just want to wrap things up for tonight. -- [[User:RobLa|RobLa]] ([[User talk:RobLa|talk]]) 06:54, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
▲— [[User:Psephomancy|Psephomancy]] ([[User talk:Psephomancy|talk]]) 02:56, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
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