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Talk:Parliamentary government formation: Difference between revisions
Talk:Parliamentary government formation (view source)
Revision as of 08:15, 22 January 2022
, 2 years ago→Rename to "Government": I ended up moving this page from "Government formation" to "Parliamentary government formation". I also put a comment on the English Wikipedia counterpart to this page (w:Talk:Government formation) suggesting that those of us in that community rename w:Government formation to w:Parliamentary government formation. We'll see where that lands.
Dr. Edmonds (talk | contribs) |
(→Rename to "Government": I ended up moving this page from "Government formation" to "Parliamentary government formation". I also put a comment on the English Wikipedia counterpart to this page (w:Talk:Government formation) suggesting that those of us in that community rename w:Government formation to w:Parliamentary government formation. We'll see where that lands.) |
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:: I think there is some controversy to what you wrote. Some examples that I'd like to run through before any edits are made: "The most polarizing systems are Single Plurality Voting and Rank Voting so one might think that these would produce a good Prime Minister and opposition leader. " I think a lot of Condorcet advocates would pretty strongly disagree that "rank voting" is polarizing. "It is typically suggested that a form of Score Voting would be optimal since it has been established as the best system for single winner elections." I think it's easy to see the bias on this one; many people prefer FPTP or IRV. "In summary, the most common suggested replacement method of government formation is to have an Approval Vote for the Prime Minister." I'd simply want a source on this one. [[User:BetterVotingAdvocacy|BetterVotingAdvocacy]] ([[User talk:BetterVotingAdvocacy|talk]]) 22:19, 29 March 2020 (UTC)
::: [[User:BetterVotingAdvocacy|BetterVotingAdvocacy]] OK that was an oversight on my part. You are right, I forgot about you Condorcet people. I tried to lay out the debate as I have seen I go down many times. Condorset has never come up. When I wrote "Rank voting" I meant IRV. I'll write to some people and get them to add their various advocacy groups and chime in. I might have a bit of a Canadian bias. Please update as you see fit. This is how wiki pages should work. --[[User:Dr. Edmonds|Dr. Edmonds]] ([[User talk:Dr. Edmonds|talk]]) 03:15, 30 March 2020 (UTC)
== Rename to "Government" ==
It seems odd that we have a "[[Government formation]]" article here, but not a "[[Government]]" article. I would like to change that by doing the following:
# Rename "[[Government formation]]" to "[[Government]]"
# Move the [[English Wikipedia]] text that I copied to [[Government formation#Government]] to the article lede
# Move the current lede down into a new "Government#Formation" section
Thoughts? -- [[User:RobLa|RobLa]] ([[User talk:RobLa|talk]]) 05:48, 13 January 2022 (UTC)
: I have a strong preference against this change. As the creator and dominant author I hope that my preference has some weight. The intention of the page is to discuss the formation of governments and how that process can be reformed. This site is largely about electoral reform and alternative systems. Government formation is a topic for reform that is somewhat underserved. I use this page to refer people to quite often and do not want to lose that ability. The larger topic of governments in general is important and should maybe be another page. The [[English Wikipedia]] page for "government" covers something quite different to the process for forming a government after an election. The [[English Wikipedia]] "Government formation" page is quite lacking but is distinct from the generic government page. Admittedly this page only covers the Westminster system and should be expanded if there are people with the knowledge to do so. To help round out this page, it would be worth while to take some of the existing information from the [[English Wikipedia]] "Government formation" page which is not here. --[[User:Dr. Edmonds|Dr. Edmonds]] ([[User talk:Dr. Edmonds|talk]]) 23:56, 13 January 2022 (UTC)
:: I forgot about being referred to as "you Condorcet people" and then almost immediately misspelled "Condorcet" as "Condorset" just to emphasize the point that you truly don't think that Condorcet methods (or the [[Condorcet criterion]]) are important. My comments from 2020 still stand; this is not a good article as written. Either we move this page to [[Government]] or we move it to [[User:Dr. Edmonds/Government formation]], unless someone weighs in with a compelling counterargument (preferrably someone other than [[User:Dr. Edmonds]], since a different [[Project:electowikian|electowikian]] oould break the stalemate, and [[User:Dr. Edmonds]] has made their position clear). I still maintain that this wiki needs a "Government" article more than it needs a "Government formation" article. -- [[User:RobLa|RobLa]] ([[User talk:RobLa|talk]]) 09:46, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
::: [[User:Psephomancy|Psephomancy]], [[User:Kristomun|Kristomun]], or [[User:Marylander | Marylander]], do any of you have opinions on if the processes and electoral methods for forming a government after the general election deserves a page? I really only know about the one system currently there so it would be great if this page could be expanded. --[[User:Dr. Edmonds|Dr. Edmonds]] ([[User talk:Dr. Edmonds|talk]]) 20:11, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
:::: As I understand it, this page is meant to describe the possible application of election methods, in this case for forming a government. I kind of see both your points. On the one hand, the article is about how voting methods could be used in government formation, not about government as an institution. On the other, it's a bit tangential to election methods themselves, and it would seem strange to discuss how to change something (in this case government) without at mentioning what that something is. So I would say it comes up to what style electowiki is going for.
:::: If a page on X can be relatively light on X itself and then have a long section about something that has to do with both X and voting methods, then the relabel to Government seems reasonable. But if it's more like Wikipedia (where you'd have an article on a country, and then "Politics of Country" as a separate page), then electoral reform in the service of changing government procedure could use a page of its own. In any case, it could use a rewrite/edit as [[User:RobLa|RobLa]] pointed out.
:::: A third option would be to move the relevant information to the pages on the various voting methods, so that if FPTP is used for government formation, this gets referred to there. This is in effect what pages on specialized methods like [[delegable proxy]] already do, but the information would become more fragmented by doing so. [[User:Kristomun|Kristomun]] ([[User talk:Kristomun|talk]]) 22:19, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
::::: A page on the process of forming a government in a Parliamentary system could be useful. An article on Government might be more useful but I'm not sure why an article on government formation would make an appropriate substitute. [[User:Marylander|Marylander]] ([[User talk:Marylander|talk]]) 07:42, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
:::::: I ended up moving this page from "Government formation" to "Parliamentary government formation". I also put a comment on the [[English Wikipedia]] counterpart to this page ([[w:Talk:Government formation]]) suggesting that those of us in that community rename [[w:Government formation]] to [[w:Parliamentary government formation]]. We'll see where that lands. -- [[User:RobLa|RobLa]] ([[User talk:RobLa|talk]]) 08:14, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
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