Category talk:FPTP-based voting methods

Merge with Single-mark ballot voting methods

I think that "Category:Single-mark ballot voting methods" is a better name for this and it is basically the same thing. Is there a clear distinction between these two concepts? If not, then why have both? --Dr. Edmonds (talk) 02:14, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

Conceptually speaking, IRV is FPTP-based (voter can't maximally support more than one candidate at a time) but isn't single-mark (i.e. is ranked). The ideas are a bit distinct, though I'd guess most single-mark methods are FPTP-based. Anti-plurality voting is an interesting twist in that a voter can't maximally oppose more than one candidate, but I'd say it is basically FPTP-based. BetterVotingAdvocacy (talk) 02:55, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

In general, I'd say it's a good idea to have two main categories: voting methods which allow you to support only a certain number of candidates at a time, and voting methods that allow you to support as many candidates at once as you want. Things like FPTP, cumulative voting, IRV, (as well as things like Plurality-at-large voting) etc. go in the first category, while rated methods and Condorcet methods go in the latter (I'm also trying to recall a voting method which allowed you to support one candidate and oppose one candidate, which isn't Negative vote apparently; maybe I'm misrecalling it, but if such a method existed, then it wouldn't be exactly FPTP-based, since you can indicate maximal preference on more than the (number of winners) candidates). I believe I've seen "Zero-sum support" and "Non-zero-sum support" used or something like that to describe these categories. BetterVotingAdvocacy (talk) 03:11, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

OK I see the distinction. I don't particularly like the term "FPTP based" for this but I do not no have any great suggestions for alternatives. Maybe something like "specific support" or "single support". As you suggest there are some systems that let you support more than one but its still limited. Maybe single support, limited support and infinite support.... I dont know. --Dr. Edmonds (talk) 04:36, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

This could actually be a great opportunity for the Equal Vote Coalition to swoop in and pioneer the terminology of another area of voting theory, as they have done elsewhere, if you can coordinate that with them. EVC actually does have a vested interest in naming these, since the idea of an Equally Weighted Vote is that "limited support systems" inherently don't allow two voters' ballots to cancel each other out. Only systems where equal rating/ranking is allowed (and interpreted in certain ways) can do that. See this comment for one context where they mentioned this: (https://www.reddit.com/r/EndFPTP/comments/f51ww6/the_meaning_of_one_person_one_vote/fhwc4yz/). BetterVotingAdvocacy (talk) 05:17, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

I am not really sure that the test of balance is 100% consistent. Look here for a comment. It might be worth while to coin some terms for single support, limited support and infinite support because then you can argue that infinite support is best. Where would you put cumulative voting? Limited? User:Sarawolk do you think coining such terms would be useful to Equal Vote? --Dr. Edmonds (talk) 05:42, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

The test of balance is primarily for single-winner elections, though. [Next point] I think, but am not sure, that cumulative voting is "single support"; my thinking is that you can only maximally support one candidate (i.e. if you put all your points into one candidate). That probably means it reduces to SNTV when everyone puts all their points behind one candidate, and SNTV clearly is single support. Remember, the idea is not whether you can give some support to each candidate you support, but rather, whether you can maximally support them; maybe it is worth generalizing that to include things like Borda, I'm not sure. [Next point] To further categorize, I'd say that related to "single support" and "support some limited number of candidates" should be: "support up to [number of winners] candidates". This additional category is useful in the sense that it is a better descriptor of some bloc voting methods than the other two categories. BetterVotingAdvocacy (talk) 06:01, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

You are right about cumulative voting. I think limited support is mostly bloc methods. Perhaps we should move this discussion to the CES forum to get more opinions and maybe a good suggestion of name. --Dr. Edmonds (talk) 06:10, 23 April 2020 (UTC)