# Talk:Independence of clone alternatives

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## "Strictly-interpreted definition of ranked clones" point

According to Independence_of_clone_alternatives#Strictly-interpreted_definition_of_ranked-clones, using the ranked ballot definition for clones doesn't make sense because {A, B} can be considered a clone set relative to C, and {B, C} can be considered a clone set relative to B, but {A, C} is not a clone set because B is scored between A and C on one of the ballots. And therefore, the section argues, the notion of clones is self-contradictory in a scored context because, say, A is simultaneous a clone and not a clone.

But this doesn't seem exclusive to the scored context. Consider the ranked version

1: A>B>C 1: C>B>A

Here, the same argument holds: {A, B} could be a clone set, and {B, C} could be a clone set, but {A, C} is definitely not one. So this doesn't *as such* invalidate the ranked-clone concept. Indeed there's no reason why the clone sets should be consistent in this sense. What independence of clones *does* say is that if we start with an election

1: A>B 1: B>A

and A happens to win with 50% probability, then cloning B into {B, C}, the winner should come from the clone set {B, C} with 50% probability, and from A with 50% probability. And that's what a random ballot tiebreaker does, but not say random candidate, proving the latter isn't cloneproof.

So I'm inclined to just replace this section with a reference to Tideman saying that he considers the +/- epsilon rating to be a good generalization of the ranked clone concept. Kristomun (talk) 14:57, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

## Name change

FWIW, I have no objections to the proposed name change :-) Kristomun (talk) 13:37, 14 July 2023 (UTC)