Talk:Electoral system

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Naming[edit source]

See Talk:Voting system#Naming -- RobLa (talk) 23:18, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

...and Category_talk:Voting_methods#Voting_systems_or_voting_methods.3F. I very slightly agree that "method" is better than "system", but both are ambiguous. — Psephomancy (talk) 00:33, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
Agreed, and I'm fine with either "system" or "method". My main concern was over "electoral" versus "voting". Sorry for spreading the discussion out in such a confusing way. I've made a few bold edits today as I've restructured things a bit, including renaming this article from "Voting system" to "Electoral system". I'll probably say more over at Category_talk:Voting_methods about other changes I'd like to make, after I remove some of the merge banners. -- RobLa (talk) 01:14, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
I'll leave the decision to you guys, but I'd say that "electoral" is a more complex, academic-sounding term than "voting". I think "voting methods" or "voting systems" is a much more approachable, repeatable term for someone who is new to the field. BetterVotingAdvocacy (talk) 01:17, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
Yeah, that makes sense, too. Ultimately they're all kind of synonyms. 01:30, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

Synonyms[edit source]

I don't believe that "vote" and "election" are synonyms, so I also believe that English Wikipedia made the correct choice when they chose the current naming of the wikipedia:Electoral system article. I just noticed that (before today) the primary English label on wikidata:Q182985 was "voting system", but I just changed it to "electoral system", which aligns with its Spanish counterpart ("sistema electoral"). I'll grant that "voting system" sounds less academic, but it's also far more easily confused with the mechanical systems used for voting (e.g. paper ballots, electronic voting machines, etc).

I agree with the observation that User:Psephomancy made in oldid=10408 of Category_talk:Voting methods (on 16 April 2020 , 20:06). To quote: "Someone [back in 2017] said "Voting method" and "voting system" both carry a plain English primary meaning of the process of casting a vote, i.e. paper, mechanical or electronic.' which makes sense to me." . Here's the 2017 page move discussion that Psephomancy referenced: English Wikipedia February 2017 page move discussion from "Voting system" to "Electoral system" Given that's where English Wikipedia ended up after a long debate, it seems sensible to follow their lead.-- RobLa (talk) 02:05, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

I'd encourage compromise here in the sense that all of these terms should be allowed throughout the wiki. I can't imagine the Equal Vote Coalition (if I understand their position correctly) will like being unable to use their preferred terminology to describe things, and likewise, in my own writing I'd prefer to keep things more accessible with the term "voting methods". BetterVotingAdvocacy (talk) 02:44, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
I think "voting" as a term can be allowed in many contexts (and to imply that I'm proposing a rename of Equal Vote Coalition is a straw man), but do you think the people who argued for the "Voting system" to "Electoral system" on English Wikipedia were wrong? I don't think they were; hence, why I think "electoral" should be preferred over "voting" to describe electoral systems on Electowiki. -- RobLa (talk) 03:34, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
I wasn't straw manning you; IIRC, EVC prefers "voting" over "electoral", so I was saying they should be able to write "voting method" rather than "electoral method" in something like the STAR voting article. I don't have enough information to judge whether electoral or voting is a better term, so I leave that to you. I'd just mention that in my limited experience, I've seen more uses of "voting" than "electoral", most likely owing to simplicity. BetterVotingAdvocacy (talk)

I mean that "voting" and "electoral" are synonyms, as are "method" and "system".

Wiktionary literally lists wikt:electoral system as a synonym of "voting system". I'm not seeing a compelling reason to prefer one over another. I looked through a few different sources to see what terms different authors use:

  • Gibbard:
    • "voting scheme"
    • "system of voting"
  • McLean
    • "electoral system"
    • "voting system"
    • "electoral rule"
  • Nanson
    • "method of election"
  • Baldwin
    • "method of voting"
  • Hogben
    • "system of voting"
  • Schulze
    • "election method"
  • Emerson M.S. Niou
    • "voting rule"
  • Emerson, Peter
    • "voting system"
    • "electoral system"
  • Riker
    • "voting method"
    • "method of voting"
    • "voting system"
  • FairVote
    • "voting system"
    • "voting method"
  • Britannica
    • "electoral system"
  • Electoral Reform Society
    • "voting system"
    • "electoral system"

"but do you think the people who argued for the "Voting system" to "Electoral system" on English Wikipedia were wrong?"

Can you summarize their arguments? They had multiple long discussions about it, but did Wikipedia just defer to the first name of the article because the discussion was going nowhere?

Remember Fredkin's paradox... — Psephomancy (talk) 01:55, 26 April 2020 (UTC)