Talk:Government formation

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RobLa (talk) added topic headlines at 20:48, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

European government formation[edit source]

User:Dr. Edmonds, this is a specifically British/European concept? Can you clarify that in the intro? Should it really be linked from the Main Page? — Psephomancy (talk) 16:27, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

Psephomancy No, all systems result in a government/executive branch in the end. Germany, the US and all the countries using the westminster system all do this in different ways. The topic of reform for this sort of thing is also quite important but does not get much attention from the election science community. I am more well informed on parliamentary systems and have put down what I can for them on this page. Somebody should add some more content for presidential systems. I think the major reform efforts there are with open primaries and electoral college. In both these systems the actual formation process tends to be "find the head of state and let them appoint the rest of the government (cabinet/staff/ect). There was a good discussion of all this here --Dr. Edmonds (talk) 16:54, 28 March 2020 (UTC)
I don't believe there's any such concept in the US. "The government" is just "the set of all elected representatives". There is no "formation of government" or "opposition party", etc. Maybe you mean that the same thing happens, but under different names? — Psephomancy (talk) 16:59, 28 March 2020 (UTC)
This is covered in the post I linked. The government is that which is formed by the president its called the executive branch in most systems. This is distinct from "The House" which is the legislative branch. The house is the same as the as the Parliament. In a parliamentary systems the executive branch (government) is a subset of the legislative branch (House). In the US they are distinct. In the US there is a two party systems so the party not in power is the opposition. It is not really that different. What this article is about is the step to get the set of executive from the elected officials. In the US the president is elected and then appoints them all. Most are not elected. In a parliamentary system the leader of the biggest party in parliament is made the Prime Minister and they select the cabinet form the rest of the parliament. --Dr. Edmonds (talk) 18:09, 28 March 2020 (UTC)
Would Matrix vote be an example? — Psephomancy (talk) 18:22, 28 March 2020 (UTC)
Yes. Electing the whole of the executive branch from the parliament is an option and this is one way to do it. Clearly this is not possible in a presidential system --Dr. Edmonds (talk) 19:20, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

Homepage portals[edit source]

I agree with Dr. Edmonds that "government formation" is a worthy link from the home page. However, I don't agree that this page is ready for it. It is a long, uncited essay written exclusively by a single author, with links to other articles buried in prose. Links from the front page should have more structured introductions, similar to the portals (Portal:Arts, Portal:Biography, Portal:Geography, Portal:History, Portal:Mathematics, Portal:Science, Portal:Society, Portal:Technology) found linked to from the top of the English Wikipedia main page. We don't have to make anything as fancy as Wikipedia's portal system, but when covering a big-picture topic like government formation. This doesn't just apply to government formation; let's make sure all of the big-picture topics linked to from the homepage focus on structure rather than prose-based persuasion. As of this writing, we promise that Electowiki "gives you a guide to what these things are". Let's try to make the guide more like a roadmap and less like a lecture. I'd like to encourage experts like Dr. Edmonds to opine on electoral reform subjects on Electowiki, and we can even figure out how to prominently link to essays by subject-matter experts like Dr. Edmonds, but I would prefer this essay in its current form reside at User:Dr. Edmonds/Government formation rather than at Government formation, since in its current form, its in DEPOV (Dr. Edmonds' point of view) rather than EPOV (Electowiki point-of-view). My instinct would be to move this page over to Dr. Edmonds' user area, and then create a new, much simpler portal-lite which links to Dr Edmonds' essay in the intro of the new Government formation portal. -- RobLa (talk) 20:48, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

RobLa My main point for adding this to the main page was to get awareness in the hopes that other would add to the page. After all this is the purpose of a wiki page. A lot of the reform community spends time on these topics and to have a list of topics for reform without listing this is an oversight. Given that I wrote the current content I wanted a pass from others. Also, my expertise is the Westminster system I was hoping that somebody with expertise in different presidential and parliamentary systems could expand. The other pages I put it beside are proportional representation, Approval voting, Score voting, instant-runoff voting, and Condorcet methods. None of these are at the high standard you claim is required but are arguably better than the Government formation page. I'll do a pass to make sure that there is nothing which is outside of standard discussions on this topic. To be clear there is nothing that is opinion and to call it an essay is a little weird. There are two subsections about the common reform efforts. I only favour one of them. --Dr. Edmonds (talk) 21:36, 29 March 2020 (UTC)
I think there is some controversy to what you wrote. Some examples that I'd like to run through before any edits are made: "The most polarizing systems are Single Plurality Voting and Rank Voting so one might think that these would produce a good Prime Minister and opposition leader. " I think a lot of Condorcet advocates would pretty strongly disagree that "rank voting" is polarizing. "It is typically suggested that a form of Score Voting would be optimal since it has been established as the best system for single winner elections." I think it's easy to see the bias on this one; many people prefer FPTP or IRV. "In summary, the most common suggested replacement method of government formation is to have an Approval Vote for the Prime Minister." I'd simply want a source on this one. BetterVotingAdvocacy (talk) 22:19, 29 March 2020 (UTC)
BetterVotingAdvocacy OK that was an oversight on my part. You are right, I forgot about you Condorcet people. I tried to lay out the debate as I have seen I go down many times. Condorset has never come up. When I wrote "Rank voting" I meant IRV. I'll write to some people and get them to add their various advocacy groups and chime in. I might have a bit of a Canadian bias. Please update as you see fit. This is how wiki pages should work. --Dr. Edmonds (talk) 03:15, 30 March 2020 (UTC)